ARI SHAPIRO, HOST:
Stephen Colbert and his wife, Evie, both grew up in the Low Country of Charleston, S.C. But as kids, they never met.
STEPHEN COLBERT: Yes, we grew up in the same town together. But one of us is a year older.
EVIE MCGEE COLBERT: Yeah. That's the truth, Ari.
COLBERT: And I'm not supposed to say which one.
MCGEE COLBERT: He's younger than I am, just one year.
SHAPIRO: Just one year.
MCGEE COLBERT: But back in high school, that's a huge difference.
SHAPIRO: Of course.
COLBERT: She went to the girls' school, and I went to what had been mostly a boys' school, and they mixed on dances, like, you know, eighth grade dance, ninth grade dance. And so we weren't in the same dance together. So how would I meet her?
SHAPIRO: As adults, they moved away. And in 1990, they were both visiting Charleston for the annual Spoleto arts festival. Each of them went to the opera with their mothers.
MCGEE COLBERT: I remember seeing Stephen walk into the theater with his mother on his arm, and I thought, that man loves his mother. You could just see.
SHAPIRO: That is a good way to choose a husband...
MCGEE COLBERT: It is, actually, a really great...
SHAPIRO: ...Somebody who treats the women in his family well.
MCGEE COLBERT: ...Way to - 100%.
SHAPIRO: Well, now, more than 30 years after they got married, Stephen Colbert and Evie McGee Colbert have written a cookbook together called "Does This Taste Funny? Recipes Our Family Loves." Many of those recipes come from Evie's late mother, who was renowned for entertaining.
COLBERT: First thing I had - the first thing I had at the McGee house was the Patti McGee's cheese biscuits.
SHAPIRO: Which was, like, a top-secret recipe until this cookbook, right?
MCGEE COLBERT: Exactly.
COLBERT: Yes.
MCGEE COLBERT: Exactly.
SHAPIRO: So what's the secret?
COLBERT: Butter.
MCGEE COLBERT: Mom would say the secret is one stick butter, one stick margarine 'cause she felt that sort of balance, instead of two of margarine or two of butter.
SHAPIRO: Stephen, you are one of 11 kids.
COLBERT: I'm the youngest of 11, which is a key position.
SHAPIRO: Yeah. So efficiency was more important than elegance when it came to food in your childhood home.
COLBERT: My mother did not make any recipes that could not be found on the back of a ketchup bottle.
SHAPIRO: But you did learn some skills that are relevant to the kitchen.
COLBERT: Well, sure, 'cause if you wanted something that wasn't at the proper meal time, you had to go make it yourself.
SHAPIRO: I was thinking, like, you'd have learned fishing, crabbing, shrimping.
COLBERT: Oh, sure...
SHAPIRO: Like, you...
COLBERT: ...'Cause I grew up on James Island, S.C. See; this is the city girl who lived in downtown Charleston. I lived out in the country on a dirt road on James Island, so I was out there catching my own bream and crab and shrimp and flounder.
MCGEE COLBERT: I did that too, by the way.
COLBERT: You didn't do it as much as I did 'cause you were off playing with your dolls without faces.
SHAPIRO: (Laughter).
SHAPIRO: Dolls without faces?
COLBERT: Well, she grew up in like "Little House On The Prairie" or something.
SHAPIRO: Oh, like, made of corn husks.
COLBERT: She grew up, like - she doesn't have any, like, early '70s TV references 'cause when I was watching TV, she was, like, I was playing with paper dolls in my attic.
MCGEE COLBERT: Sounds like I'm a hundred years old.
SHAPIRO: So wholesome.
COLBERT: No. She had, like - you had a 19th century childhood in downtown Charleston. You did.
MCGEE COLBERT: Very pure.
COLBERT: You had very traditional - yes.
SHAPIRO: I wanted to know if you've retained these skills, and so we brought a whole salmon that's under the table and a knife - scales, head, tail, everything.
COLBERT: We'll fillet them.
MCGEE COLBERT: No wonder it smells a little odd in here. I was wondering.
COLBERT: I will fillet the hell out of that thing.
SHAPIRO: Can you still do that? Do you still, like...
COLBERT: I can do that on a rocking boat, baby.
SHAPIRO: Really?
COLBERT: Oh, yeah. I just - we were just out - I fish whenever I can. We were 70 miles offshore, caught a beautiful wahoo. I filleted just the tail piece, chopped it up, threw it in a little container there with some salt and some lime and some cilantro and a little chopped-up shallot. Close that thing up, put it in the cooler. By noon - that's about 8:00 a.m. when you catch the first fish. By noon...
SHAPIRO: You just leveled up.
MCGEE COLBERT: I was going to say, Ari, that was the best question we have been asked in a week.
COLBERT: By noon, it's ceviche, baby. Get yourself a Corona.
SHAPIRO: Suddenly, this interview got a very different vibe.
MCGEE COLBERT: No kidding.
COLBERT: We started talking about fishing and knives.
(LAUGHTER)
SHAPIRO: OK. You say you want this book to feel like hanging out with you in the kitchen. Paint a picture for us. What does that feel like with the two of you?
MCGEE COLBERT: Maybe a little bit of the animosity we're having right now.
(LAUGHTER)
COLBERT: Well, who's in control of the pan? That's the issue. Who's in control of the pan at any one time? We have learned - 31 years into our marriage, we're now finally willing to sous chef for the other one.
SHAPIRO: Well, 'cause one of you is a chaos Muppet, and one of you is an order Muppet, right?
MCGEE COLBERT: I'm the order Muppet.
SHAPIRO: Shocking.
MCGEE COLBERT: Shocking, I know. I know - very surprising.
COLBERT: And I'm going to figure it out as we go, man. That's why I don't bake because you have to be a rule follower.
SHAPIRO: You can't improvise a cake.
MCGEE COLBERT: Right.
COLBERT: Yes. Evie was the salutatorian of her class.
SHAPIRO: I don't know that word.
COLBERT: It's not the valedictorian. It's No. 2.
SHAPIRO: Oh, it's like the runner-up. It's the silver medalist.
MCGEE COLBERT: Yeah.
COLBERT: Yes, exactly. So she follows rules. She does the homework assignments.
MCGEE COLBERT: I do the homework assignment, 100%.
COLBERT: And I improvise.
SHAPIRO: For people who are not familiar with the Low Country, with South Carolina, with Charleston, how would you describe what the food of that community, of that place is?
COLBERT: Seafood is the No. 1 thing because Charleston is so low lying that it's not like on the sea. It's frequently in the sea. It's not particularly complicated. But it's really fresh seafood ingredients with a heavy West African influence because of the West African slave trade. We have okra. We have red rice, which is very much like jollof or yollof (ph) rice from West Africa - peanuts, sesame. All of that is still in all the cuisine of South Carolina and the Low Country.
SHAPIRO: Evie, you're more vegan than not, so what is your favorite?
COLBERT: You are so selectively vegan.
MCGEE COLBERT: I'm a little more - I'm a pescatarian now.
SHAPIRO: Sure.
MCGEE COLBERT: Cheese and I are good friends again. We made it up.
SHAPIRO: I absolutely understand. This book has got a lot of meat recipes.
MCGEE COLBERT: Right.
SHAPIRO: What's your favorite little trick to make something meatless?
MCGEE COLBERT: Well, so Stephen did a great thing with this red rice he was talking about. Usually, it's made with bacon and bacon fat. And he said, let's try it with smoked salt and a little anchovy. It's so good.
SHAPIRO: Oh, that sounds great.
MCGEE COLBERT: It's actually better. I would challenge anyone to try the original with what's in our cookbook. It's so much better. Now, shots fired. I realize that.
(LAUGHTER)
SHAPIRO: There's room for a lot of variations.
COLBERT: Yeah.
MCGEE COLBERT: That's right.
SHAPIRO: Purity is not the goal.
MCGEE COLBERT: That's true.
SHAPIRO: Stephen, you've written a lot of books, but none quite like this one.
COLBERT: None as good as this one.
SHAPIRO: None as good as this one - well, because with this one, you had a collaborator...
COLBERT: I know.
MCGEE COLBERT: There you go.
SHAPIRO: ...That you've been married for many years.
COLBERT: I know. I was nervous about that.
SHAPIRO: Really? What were you nervous about?
COLBERT: Well, we were nervous about just working together at all, but COVID threw us together because Evie was my crew and my audience and my only guest. And I was super nervous when we started that. I was like, well, what if she doesn't like this? What if I'm a horrible boss? Or what if I'm a boss at all? 'Cause that's not our relationship at all.
But we had such a good time that - we had been - I had been offered the opportunity to do a cookbook before, but it wasn't until we worked together and had a good time, I went, oh, no, this would be fun to actually just sort of extend this relationship we've already started during the COVID shows and to do a project together. And it was nerve-wracking at first, but it turned out to be a complete joy.
SHAPIRO: Can we conclude with a lightning round?
COLBERT: Oh, sure.
SHAPIRO: Best way to eat a potato?
COLBERT: Scalloped.
MCGEE COLBERT: French fry.
SHAPIRO: OK. Dish you're most famous for?
MCGEE COLBERT: Lentil soup.
COLBERT: Red rice
SHAPIRO: Red rice, lentil soup. Most useful kitchen skill?
MCGEE COLBERT: Spatula. You have to be able to flip something.
SHAPIRO: Your personal most useful kitchen skill.
MCGEE COLBERT: That's all I can do (laughter).
SHAPIRO: You can flip something with a spatula. Stephen?
COLBERT: Dicing.
SHAPIRO: Dicing. OK. Most obscure kitchen skill?
COLBERT: Pick up hot things.
SHAPIRO: You've got asbestos fingers.
COLBERT: I've got asbestos fingers.
MCGEE COLBERT: I got a better one - deveining a shrimp.
SHAPIRO: Very good.
MCGEE COLBERT: Thank you.
SHAPIRO: Very Low Country.
MCGEE COLBERT: Yeah.
SHAPIRO: Biggest kitchen disagreement?
MCGEE COLBERT: Well...
COLBERT: Do you have to peel tomatoes?
MCGEE COLBERT: Yes.
COLBERT: No.
SHAPIRO: Your spouse's most annoying kitchen habit?
MCGEE COLBERT: Oh, boy.
COLBERT: Oh.
SHAPIRO: (Laughter).
COLBERT: Oh.
MCGEE COLBERT: Well, one of...
COLBERT: Well, sometimes, sometimes - and it's been almost 31 years. But sometimes, Evie likes to stir the bottom of a non-stick pot with a metal spoon.
MCGEE COLBERT: And sometimes, Stephen can be very bossy and critical.
SHAPIRO: OK. What you cook to tell your spouse, I love you?
COLBERT: Aw.
MCGEE COLBERT: Stephen used to make me scones every Mother's Day.
COLBERT: Yeah.
MCGEE COLBERT: I loved those.
COLBERT: Lentil soup, banana bread for you.
MCGEE COLBERT: Banana bread, I make a lot of banana bread.
COLBERT: Yeah.
MCGEE COLBERT: I did try - I think I talked about it in the cookbook. I tried when we first got married to make chicken l'orange because he said he loved it. I never made it right. I gave up.
COLBERT: Never. You still have not made it right.
SHAPIRO: You tried.
MCGEE COLBERT: I tried.
COLBERT: It's what my mom would make for my first birthday every year.
SHAPIRO: Last question of the lightning round - best drink to unwind with after a grueling NPR interview?
COLBERT: I'm a simple man. I like an old fashioned.
MCGEE COLBERT: Well, we're coming off of summer. I'm still an Aperol spritz girl. But, I mean, I guess in the winter, maybe like a - I like chardonnay, couple of glasses of that.
COLBERT: Couple two, three glasses of chardonnay.
MCGEE COLBERT: You know, then I can unwind.
COLBERT: This one loosens up. Yep.
(SOUNDBITE OF MUSIC)
SHAPIRO: Stephen Colbert and Evie McGee Colbert, thank you so much for the conversation.
COLBERT: Thank you. This was fun.
MCGEE COLBERT: Thank you, Ari. It was great.
SHAPIRO: Their new cookbook is "Does This Taste Funny? Recipes Our Family Loves." Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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