DAVE DAVIES, HOST:
This is FRESH AIR. I'm Dave Davies. Cissy Houston, the gospel singer and backup vocalist who guided her daughter Whitney Houston to stardom, died Monday at the age of 91. Cissy Houston began singing on the gospel circuit as a child. She also sang secular music. She performed with The Sweet Inspirations, the group that backed Aretha Franklin. And she sang backup vocals for Elvis Presley, Solomon Burke, Dusty Springfield, Wilson Pickett, Van Morrison, The Drifters and Dionne Warwick, who was her niece.
In a New York Times obituary, Robert Darden, who wrote several books on gospel music, said of Houston, she was a significant figure not because she sold a lot of records but because of the people she influenced who did sell a lot and because of her work as a sustainer and nurturer of the gospel music tradition. For more than 50 years, Cissy Houston was the choir director for the New Hope Baptist Church in Newark, where she got her start as a singer. She endured the double tragedy of the death of her daughter Whitney, who drowned in a hotel bathtub in 2012, and three years later the loss of her granddaughter and Whitney's daughter, Bobbi Kristina Brown, who was found unresponsive in her home bathtub and died shortly after.
Terry spoke with Cissy Houston in 1998. At the time, Houston had written her autobiography, "How Sweet The Sound: My Life With God And Gospel." They began with music from Cissy Houston's Grammy Award-winning gospel album "Face To Face." This is "God Don't Ever Change."
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "GOD DON'T EVER CHANGE")
CISSY HOUSTON: (Singing) God in all creation. God when Adam fell, Adam fell. God way up in heaven - good God Almighty, now - God way down in hell. Oh, He's God, He's God. God don't ever change. He's God - He's God, my God - always will be God. You see, He's spoken to the mountain - yes, He did, yeah - said how great I am, I am. Want you to get up in the morning, children, shift around like lambs. He's God, He's God. God don't ever change. He's God - He's God, my God - always will be God. He's God in your time of sickness, in your time of sickness. God is a doctor, too. God is a doctor, too. In your time of trouble, He's truly a God to you. Hallelujah. Oh, He's God, He's God. God don't ever change. He's God - He's God, my God - always will be God, yeah.
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED NPR BROADCAST)
TERRY GROSS: Cissy Houston, welcome to FRESH AIR.
C HOUSTON: Thank you so very much for having me.
GROSS: So how old were you when you started singing in the family group?
C HOUSTON: Five years old. I was 5 years old, and they had to put me on a stool in order to see me. And, of course, at 5 years old, I wanted to be out playing with everyone else. And it was kind of difficult for me, but there was no question. I didn't have a choice (laughter).
GROSS: You must develop a great ear for harmony when you start singing close harmony at the age of 5.
C HOUSTON: For sure. I really did. And I prefer it. I like, a lot of times, a cappella. That is first and foremost in teaching, as far as I'm concerned, that the harmonies be right.
GROSS: So how did you first start hearing secular music? And who were some of the performers that you first heard?
C HOUSTON: Well, Dinah Washington was one of my favorite people, and I love her. Today, I love her. Sarah Vaughan went to school with my sister, so she lived in the neighborhood also. I listened to her and Jimmy Witherspoon. I loved him - B. B. King, you know, people like that. The blues - I love the blues , things like that.
GROSS: I'd love to hear the story of how you became a backup singer. I think that Dionne Warwick relates to this story. Dionne Warwick and her sister, Dee Dee, were backup singers. And had you known them from church choir?
C HOUSTON: No, they're my nieces.
GROSS: They're your nieces.
C HOUSTON: Yes, they are.
GROSS: Oh, oh, oh. Wow - small world.
C HOUSTON: Both of them are.
(LAUGHTER)
GROSS: So how does Dionne Warwick's having been a backup singer relate to you having become one?
C HOUSTON: Well, actually Dionne had something else to do that night with The Shirelles, and my husband was managing them at the time.
GROSS: Managing The Shirelles or Dionne Warwick?
C HOUSTON: No, no, no, Dionne and her group, background singers - Dee Dee, Dionne and another kid, Sylvia. And he was managing them, and he had a session to do. And of course, he couldn't stop her from going with The Shirelles. That was a great opportunity for her. So he asked me would I do it? I said, yeah, I'll do it. You know, I didn't really want to because I had just had a baby, like, a month before that. But anyhow, I did. We wrapped up and went to New York. And at first, the guy didn't want - he wanted to cancel the session. So my husband said, well, just listen, you know, and whatnot, and they did. And after that, they wanted me. I finished a whole week with them. They wanted me. They didn't want - you know, didn't want to go back. They liked the sound and all of that. And that's how I got started in it.
GROSS: After singing backup for a while, you ended up singing with Aretha Franklin as one of her backup singers.
C HOUSTON: Yeah, well, I worked with Aretha when she was at Columbia also, the earlier days before she got to Atlantic, when she did some marvelous music. Just wasn't appreciated, I guess, like it should've been. Then she came to Atlantic, and yeah - and looked like our paths met again and wound up singing background for her, yeah, a lot.
GROSS: And in your memoir, you say that one of your favorites of the Aretha tracks is "Natural Woman," and you worked out the background parts on this. Can you tell us a little bit about how you did that, what you were looking for?
C HOUSTON: Well, I don't know. You always, when you work out - I worked out background parts on most of the things that I did. But "Natural Woman" was like, you try to meet - enhance what she's done, you know? And that's the point. That's the gist of doing backgrounds, to make it better, you know? And a lot of times, backgrounds make songs and really sell them. And I don't know how I worked it out right now (laughter). It was just, you know, repeating and thinking about, you know, doing something. And you try one thing, and that works or doesn't work. You try something else.
GROSS: Now, did you come up with the aah-oohs, or was that a producer who suggested that?
C HOUSTON: No, that was me.
GROSS: That was you.
C HOUSTON: Mm-hmm (ph).
GROSS: I always wonder, like, how do you know what syllable to use? Like, why aah-ooh instead of ooh-aah or ooh-aah-ooh or...
C HOUSTON: Neither do I. I don't know why. You try the one that works, I guess.
GROSS: Well, why don't we hear "Natural Woman, " Aretha Franklin? Cissy Houston is one of the backup singers on this, and she did the vocal arrangements, the harmonies.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "NATURAL WOMAN")
ARETHA FRANKLIN: (Singing) When my soul was in the lost and found, you came along to claim it. I didn't know just what was wrong with me till your kiss helped me name it. Now I'm no longer doubtful of what I'm living for. And if I make you happy, I don't need to do more. Because you make me feel, you make me feel, you make me feel like a natural woman, woman. Oh, baby, what you've done to me, what you've done to me. You make me feel so good inside, good inside. And I just want to be, want to be close to you. You make me feel so alive. You make me feel, you make me feel, you make me feel like a natural woman, woman. You make me feel...
GROSS: That's Aretha Franklin with Cissy Houston, my guest, as one of the backup singers. And she did the vocal harmonies for that track. Cissy Houston, did you feel a connection to Aretha Franklin through gospel music?
C HOUSTON: Somewhat because we both were in gospel music, did the same kind of, you know, thing, stirring kind of gospel. And, yes, I felt, like, a camaraderie with her.
GROSS: And when you were doing backup vocals for Aretha Franklin, did you find that everything you needed to know, you knew from gospel music, that the harmonies you were using came out of gospel music?
C HOUSTON: Oh, sure. Oh, sure. One thing about us, we pushed one another. We would just, you know - we'd feed off one another, which made it a terrific sound and such a great, you know, audience participation. They just loved it.
GROSS: Now, how would you record in the studio? Did you all sing at the same time, or was everything overdubbed?
C HOUSTON: No, well, sometimes we sang at the same time. With Aretha, at that point, yeah, everything was overdubbed. On Columbia, now, we sang at the same time. She sang in a booth, and we were in either maybe a booth or outside with something else.
GROSS: What was your preference?
C HOUSTON: Well, booth is good. And overdubbing is greater because you can really get a down sound, you know, good sound, balance and all that kind of business. And things that you think of, you know, that might work better on something, you don't have to stick with it, you know?
GROSS: What did you enjoy and what didn't you like about singing backup?
C HOUSTON: I didn't like? Anything. You know, I loved singing background. I just love singing it and love creating something and realizing the outcome. And it was sounding great and good. And we sounded good and great, and most of all, it sold records (laughter).
DAVIES: Cissy Houston speaking with Terry Gross in 1998. She was a gospel and backup singer for many hits of the '60s and '70s, and she was the mother of Whitney Houston. We'll hear more after a break. This is FRESH AIR. ****************************
DAVIES: This is FRESH AIR. Let's get back to Terry's 1998 interview with gospel and backup singer Cissy Houston. She died Monday at the age of 91.
GROSS: Now, you had an album of your own in the mid-'70s that has since been reissued. And on this, you were the lead singer, all secular songs, all cover recordings. And, in fact, why don't we pause here and listen to a cover you did of one of your niece's hits?
(LAUGHTER)
GROSS: And this is "I Just Don't Know What To Do With Myself, " one of the Burt Bacharach songs. Do you want to say anything about recording this and doing it your way?
C HOUSTON: Well, I always - I just liked the song. Always did. And there was no kind of reason to cover it but I just - except that I just liked the song and wanted to try it another way.
GROSS: Why don't we hear it? And this is from the mid-'70s, Cissy Houston.
C HOUSTON: Great.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "I JUST DON'T KNOW WHAT TO DO WITH MYSELF")
C HOUSTON: (Singing) Somebody. Won't you help me? Somebody. 'Cause I don't know what to do with myself. Just don't know what to do with myself. I'm so used to doing everything with you, planning everything for two. But now that we're through, I don't know what to do. I don't know what to do with myself. I'm so lonesome for you, I could cry. Going to a movie only makes me feel bad. Parties make me feel so sad 'cause I'm not with you. I don't know what to do. No, no. no. Like a summer rose.
GROSS: That's Cissy Houston from a secular album that she made in the mid-'70s. Now, where were you in your career when your daughter, Whitney Houston, was born?
C HOUSTON: I was pretty much doing a lot - a great deal of backgrounds. In fact, I was in the studio the night before I went to the hospital.
GROSS: What were you recording?
C HOUSTON: I don't know what we were recording. We were recording - I was putting on somebody - I imagine it was for Aretha or somebody like that. And Tom Dowd, who was the engineer at that point, said, Cissy, are you all right? Are you all right? Are you - I said, fine. Come on. Roll the tape. And they were nervous. They were a nervous wreck.
(LAUGHTER)
GROSS: Well, it must have been hard to take those big, deep breaths you need to sing when you were, you know, ready to give birth.
(LAUGHTER)
C HOUSTON: Not really. You don't even think about it, you know? I was singing like a mockingbird when I was pregnant.
GROSS: So when you became a mother and you were on the road a lot, you know, in recording studios and, I guess, doing some performing as well, when did you decide to come off the road?
C HOUSTON: Well, it just - I really got tired. I got tired of hearing my children cry, Mommy, why do you have to go? Da, da, da, da. And I had decided that I would do something else by myself.
GROSS: What?
C HOUSTON: And - well, I was becoming an artist in my own right, and I had an opportunity to do so. And that's when I left the Sweet Inspirations and became a single artist because I was the oldest one of the group, and they wanted to do other things. They wanted to wear things that I didn't feel like I would - could afford to do that with my three kids and representing my, you know? So I decided...
GROSS: You want to give us an example of what you mean?
C HOUSTON: No.
GROSS: No. OK.
C HOUSTON: No, not really - just clothes that, you know, didn't become me.
GROSS: Right.
C HOUSTON: That's all.
GROSS: When did you realize that Whitney could really sing?
C HOUSTON: I guess she was - must have been around 11 when she really sang her first solo, and it was great. She - before that, she always liked to practice in the basement of some kind, and she loved to dance and things like that. And I used to take her with me all the time, so she was exposed to that kind of, you know, things. And she was good at what she did, you know? But then, at 11, I think that's when I really realized that she really could sing. And I never did think about her having a future in it until she decided that that's what she wanted to do. I thought she was going to be a veterinarian.
(LAUGHTER)
GROSS: And when you realized that she wanted to sing professionally, did you try to encourage or discourage her?
C HOUSTON: Well, I tried to tell her of the - all the negatives, you know? And there were so many positives also. But it's your choices that you make.
GROSS: If you don't mind my asking, your speaking voice today sounds a little raspy. Your singing...
C HOUSTON: Yeah.
GROSS: ...Voice sounds really full and clear.
C HOUSTON: Yeah.
GROSS: Does your voice kind of change during the day, or is your singing voice and your speaking voice different, or...
C HOUSTON: It's different.
GROSS: It's different.
C HOUSTON: Yes. Everybody's always so surprised when I sing so high, right?
GROSS: Oh, yeah.
C HOUSTON: (Laughter) And my voice is so - really low. Like you said, it's raspy. And - but I am tired. I have a cold, so that's probably why. I'm usually not this raspy.
GROSS: Right. OK. OK. And what's it like for you to sing in a range that's different from your speaking range? Has it always been that way, or...
C HOUSTON: Yeah. It's always been that way.
GROSS: Even when you were a girl, you were singing higher than you were speaking.
C HOUSTON: I was a contralto when I was a kid - very low voice, very low, very deep and pronounced, you know? It was wonderful, like an organ. And I always wanted to sing high, so to develop my range, that's what I did. I did it scales and kept going up and up. You know what I'm saying?
GROSS: Right. I think a lot of listeners, when they hear, say, an Aretha Franklin record, act as if they are one of the backup singers (laughter) singing along. It's actually, I think, a lifelong fantasy of a lot of people to have been - I guess, to have been you in a way - to have been the backup singer on Aretha's records. And I'm wondering, like, do you sing backups when you hear one of those records played back, say, in a restaurant...
C HOUSTON: All the time.
GROSS: ...Or something?
C HOUSTON: All the time. In fact, rather than learn the lead parts, I'm usually doing the background, you know?
GROSS: (Laughter).
C HOUSTON: In my house or whatever, you know? I think that's the most - they made a lot of the record sound. You know, the background was most important.
GROSS: It sure was. Do you have a favorite of all the records you've sung backups on?
C HOUSTON: I guess I like that one, "Natural Woman." I like "Preacher Man" by Dusty Springfield. And I did a couple of Whitney's. I loved all of those (laughter).
GROSS: Oh, I guess I should have realized that. You're doing the backups on Whitney's records.
C HOUSTON: Some of them, yeah. "I Want To Dance With Somebody" and "How Will I Know" and ones of - oh, I forget the name of the other one. It was a slow one about her man - "My Man" - whatever. Yeah.
GROSS: That must have felt good.
C HOUSTON: It felt very, very good. It felt odd, you know? I'm doing the backup on my baby's - my kid's record, you know? And it was great. It was great.
GROSS: Well, I want to thank you very much for talking with us.
C HOUSTON: It's my pleasure. And thank you for having me.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "HOW WILL I KNOW?)
WHITNEY HOUSTON: (Singing) How will I know? Don't trust your feelings. How will I know? How will I know? Love can be deceiving. How will I know? How will I know if he really loves me? I say a prayer with every heartbeat. I fall in love whenever we meet. I'm asking you 'cause you know about these things. How will I know if he's thinking of me?
DAVIES: Cissy Houston spoke with Terry Gross in 1998. She died Monday at the age of 91. After a break, we'll hear an excerpt of my 2004 interview with baseball's Pete Rose, who died last week, and David Bianculli reviews a new film about the first episode of "Saturday Night Live." I'm Dave Davies, and this is FRESH AIR.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "HE IS THE MUSIC")
C HOUSTON: (Singing) I am a singer. I'm but one voice. I sing to free myself, to let my soul rejoice. He is my passion. He is my light. He keeps all hope alive and watches through the night. We are His children. We're truly blessed. We shout to all who'll hear we'll equal in a test. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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