SCOTT SIMON, HOST:
The documentary film "Dahomey" is a story of return, the restitution of stolen royal treasures. The 26 artifacts were among thousands taken by French colonial troops in the late 19th century from the kingdom of Dahomey, which is now the Republic of Benin in West Africa. The loot was displayed in Paris, but in 2021, the artifacts were carefully loaded into crates and flown back home, a journey that the French Senegalese film director Mati Diop captures in her new documentary. The film won the coveted Golden Bear prize earlier this year at the Berlin Film Festival. And Mati Diop joins us now from our studios at NPR West. Thank you so much for being with us.
MATI DIOP: Thank you for having me.
SIMON: I have read that you felt it was your duty to make this film. How so?
DIOP: Yeah. In duty, I don't want to make it sound too heavy either, because it was the most fantastic challenge and journey and experience as a filmmaker. But I felt that it was very important to document this historical moment. Most of the archives from Africa have been filmed by colonizers, and so I think it's very important for us to take in charge through cinema our stories. And so this is what I meant by duty.
SIMON: This is a documentary, but there are some dramatized moments. And for example, you gave voice to one of the statues.
(SOUNDBITE OF DOCUMENTARY, "DAHOMEY")
UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR: (As statue of King Ghezo, non-English language spoken).
SIMON: "We all bear the same scars," it says, "uprooted, ripped out..."
(SOUNDBITE OF DOCUMENTARY, "DAHOMEY")
UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR: (As statue of King Ghezo, non-English language spoken).
SIMON: "...The spoils of massive plundering." Why did you give - want to give voice that way to the statues? And how did you infer what they would say?
DIOP: For me, the most important gesture with doing this film was to give back - to give back a story, a voice, a language, a power, a subjectivity to these artifacts that have been dispossessed by their own story. So the first gesture was to make sure these artifacts stopped being objectified and could again become subjects with agency, with point of views, with subjectivity. This is also why they've been filmed from the first sequence at Museum of Quai Branly before the departure. They've been filmed in a way that the audience can experience the journey of return from the perspectives of the artifacts.
SIMON: A large part of your film focuses on students in Benin...
DIOP: Yes.
SIMON: ...Talking about the significance, as they see it, of the return of the royal artifacts. What surprised you most about the back-and-forth of the students?
DIOP: What surprised me most has more to do with something very specific about the Beninese culture I discovered there, which was the huge quality of listening within the debate. It was not only people talking to each other, imposing their point of view. So much about that debate is about listening to what the other has to say, which is probably one of the reason why this debate is so rich and so complex.
SIMON: Yeah. I wonder how you feel - it is heartbreaking when you take a look at the film and, after a while, realize that, you know, in all those file drawers and boxes just stored away with nobody seeing it is artwork from Dahomey. But what about the argument I've heard from some museum professionals in places like London, Paris, New York, over the years, that at least that kept the artwork intact?
DIOP: Well, I mean, yeah - I mean, it's hard to say the contrary, but I don't think it's the question. I think to say this is just a way to erase a debate, which is social, which is political. And the level of denial on the colonial legacy and responsibility really needs to become a subject in France. They have too much to lose by deconstruct this politic.
SIMON: Let me ask you this finally. Should European institutions - museums, colleges - return all the art that was plundered from colonial times, or is there something to be said for people in Paris being able to see art from Benin?
DIOP: To me, it's a question that is not a good question. It's exactly the same nature of statesmen, then at least they were saved. At least they are intact. And to ask, should they all be returned, to me, is a little bit - there's something a bit perverse about it because how many artifacts have been returned? We're talking about 26 when we know that more than a million of African artifacts have been stolen, have been captured. So to say, should we give them all back, to me, is kind of a provocation because it's such a despite for the people who have been dispossessed by these artifacts.
SIMON: Mati Diop is director of the new film "Dahomey." Thank you so much for being with us.
DIOP: Thank you.
(SOUNDBITE OF SAMBA TOURE'S "WHITE CROCODILE BLUES") Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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