JUANA SUMMERS, HOST:
For the first time, Ukraine has fired long-range U.S. ballistic missiles into Russia as part of heavy ongoing fighting, Russia opposes their use and says this marks an escalation in the war. We're joined now by NPR Pentagon correspondent Tom Bowman. Hey, Tom.
TOM BOWMAN, BYLINE: Hey, Juana.
SUMMERS: So, Tom, what else can you tell us about Ukraine's use of these U.S. missiles?
BOWMAN: Well, U.S. officials say Ukraine has fired seven long-range ballistic missiles known as ATACMS about 70 miles into Southwest Russia. Russia's defense ministry says it shot down five of the missiles. The U.S. says two were shot down. And some of these missiles targeted at weapons depot, and the damage estimate is ongoing.
Now, President Biden on Sunday gave Ukraine permission to use the ATACMS inside Russia, something Ukrainian officials and their supporters in the U.S. have been advocating for more than a year. But Biden had opposed this previously, fearing it could lead to even greater escalation of the war. But here's why Biden changed the policy. Russia brought in more than 12,000 North Korean troops into the Kursk area of Russia, where Ukrainian troops have siezed some territory. And it's a tough fight. This could change things, Juana, at least in that area.
SUMMERS: Tom, what have we heard from Russia? What's the response been?
BOWMAN: Well, Russian foreign Secretary Sergei Lavrov called it, quote, "a new phase of the Western war against Russia." And he said, we will react accordingly, though he didn't say what that means. He also pointed out that Russia has lowered the threshold for the use of nuclear weapons. That means nuclear weapons could be used in the case of a conventional weapons attack on Russia, one that is, they say, a critical threat to sovereignty or its territorial integrity.
Russia has been saying for some time that such long-range attacks would mean NATO is directly involved in the Ukraine war, indicating that Russia could hit NATO targets like, you know, stocks of weapons destined for Ukraine. But this change in Russian doctrine - you know, there were basically, before this, three reasons for the use of nuclear weapons - if such weapons are used against Russia, if there's a threat to regime's survival or if its army is surrounded.
SUMMERS: OK, got it. What about Ukraine? What have we heard from Ukraine about these missiles?
BOWMAN: Well, Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy has declined to confirm or deny the first use of these long-range American weapons. He only said that, listen. We now have them, and we will use them. But Ukraine doesn't have a lot of these ATACMS. So I'm sure they'll be focused on hitting key targets, including, I'm told, hardened targets that Ukrainian drones have not been able to penetrate.
And, again, these missiles will help in the Kursk region against these North Korean and Russian forces. But overall, it's hard to see this really as a game-changer. Russian forces are making some gains in the eastern part of Ukraine, and U.S. officials have privately said Ukrainian forces going into Russia's Kursk area really didn't - it helped with morale but really didn't achieve anything strategically. The best that Ukraine can hope for is all this places them in a better negotiating position, something really the U.S. said has been the goal really from the start of the war.
SUMMERS: Question for you about politics here in the U.S. I wonder, is President-elect Trump going to change or even outright reverse some of President Biden's Ukraine policies?
BOWMAN: Well, certainly Trump could reverse it, and those close to Trump have criticized allowing the use of these long-range missiles. They want to end the war, and Trump has said that. Vice President-elect JD Vance has suggested freezing the frontlines before negotiations, a move that could help Putin. Now he holds about 18% of Ukrainian territory.
SUMMERS: NPR's Tom Bowman. Thanks.
BOWMAN: You're welcome. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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