DON GONYEA, HOST:
Former congresswoman Lori Chavez-DeRemer is President Trump's pick to head the Labor Department. And this past week, during her confirmation hearing, she made her case before Congress.
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LORI CHAVEZ-DEREMER: In 2024, our nation witnessed the single greatest political achievement of our time. President Trump has united a new coalition of working-class Americans like never before.
GONYEA: Her nomination is notable because she's a Republican with a pro-labor reputation. As a member of the U.S. House, Chavez-DeRemer co-sponsored a bill called the Protecting the Right to Organize Act, or the PRO Act. It's a bill that would provide protections for workers trying to organize, and it is, and has been, a top priority for labor unions. But her hearing raised questions about where she actually does stand on that issue. She told senators she supports the PRO Act, but not when it's in conflict with individual states' right-to-work laws, which undermine unions. Here she is in an exchange with Republican Senator Rand Paul of Kentucky, who strongly opposes the PRO Act.
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CHAVEZ-DEREMER: I fully, fairly support states who want to protect their right to work. I have said that to every senator that I have visited.
RAND PAUL: So you no longer support the aspect of the PRO Act that would have overturned state right-to-work laws?
CHAVEZ-DEREMER: Yeah. There were so many parts,
PAUL: That's a yes?
CHAVEZ-DEREMER: Yes. There - yes, sir.
PAUL: No more questions.
GONYEA: Her nomination comes at an interesting time. As President Trump professes to represent the interests of working Americans, thousands of federal workers are being laid off. At a Capitol Hill rally protesting those layoffs earlier this month, Democratic Congressman Brendan Boyle accused Republicans of hypocrisy.
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BRENDAN BOYLE: You know, election time in my area and other areas when you hear certain Republican members on TV talking about, you know, I'm very bipartisan. I'm not anti-labor. I love labor.
UNIDENTIFIED PERSON: Yeah.
BOYLE: Some of my best friends are union members.
UNIDENTIFIED PERSON: Ah.
BOYLE: Here's a chance for them to show it. Stand up for the men and women who are working for this country.
GONYEA: Joining us now to talk about the labor secretary nominee and what this pick signals to us about President Trump's priorities is a longtime labor analyst, Harley Shaiken of the University of California, Berkeley. Harley, thanks for being here.
HARLEY SHAIKEN: Very good to be here.
GONYEA: Can we do some Civics 101 just to start? Briefly describe what is the role of the Labor Department.
SHAIKEN: Well, the Labor Department does a number of things. It protects wages and hours. It looks into other areas that affect working Americans, and it also creates a voice within an administration for workers, or that ostensibly is what it's meant to do.
GONYEA: So Lori Chavez-DeRemer is not on the job yet as labor secretary. The confirmation vote in the Senate should come soon. But in terms of her rhetoric and even her background and time in office as a mayor and as a one-term member of Congress, she is a Republican who has a reputation as being pro-labor. How would you characterize her views on labor?
SHAIKEN: Well, I think there are really two Lori Chavez-DeRemers. One is the person you've just described, as a moderate Republican in a swing district. She came out strongly for two pieces of legislation, the PRO Act, which you mentioned, and a similar act extending the right to organize to public workers who don't have it today, and that was cheered by labor, so she ran with labor support. She lost narrowly this last November. But the second Lori Chavez-DeRemer has been the person we heard in the confirmation hearing. This is someone who seems to be channeling President Trump and effectively saying not simply that she serves at the pleasure of the president, which any cabinet nominee does, but rather that she will adhere to all aspects of his labor agenda, which in many areas has been, and likely will be, very critical against labor.
GONYEA: The labor secretary is a cabinet-level position, but there's another government entity that plays a major role, perhaps an even larger role, in establishing the rights of workers, the rights of labor unions and what happens in any given workplace. That's the National Labor Relations Board. It's called the NLRB. It has commissioners appointed by the president. And depending on the political makeup of that board, it can support or undermine Labor Department policies. Is that a fair way to put it?
SHAIKEN: That's a very accurate way to put it. And there's always changes that are made, but President Trump has gutted the board initially so that it no longer has a quorum.
GONYEA: It has five members. It needs three for a quorum. Currently, there are two because of two firings by President Trump, and there was a vacancy. Is that right?
SHAIKEN: That is correct.
GONYEA: So what's that mean, if we have an NLRB with no quorum?
SHAIKEN: It can do nothing. It can't enact or review anything in a defining way until that quorum is restored. And President Trump did that also with the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission. He basically fired enough members of that board so that there isn't a quorum, so that can't operate, either, which also affects workers.
GONYEA: What do you say to people who say, the president was elected, and the president was elected with stronger-than-normal for a Republican support from unions and working people, and because of that, this is his right?
SHAIKEN: Well, the president was elected based on doing things for working people and making workers more secure and better paid in terms of an economy that's functioning. He's not going to be delivering that given the direction in which he's moving right now. We are seeing a preview of Trump's labor policies with how he is dismantling huge chunks of the federal government. That isn't something different. It is put in the guise of efficiency. We're getting rid of corruption and bloat. But there are human lives at stake of very talented individuals who have devoted their lives to public service, and we've treated them in a peremptory and really destructive way. If that is a preview of broader labor policies, we're in for a rough ride.
GONYEA: It's hard to see, in your view, this labor secretary pushing back hard against that.
SHAIKEN: I think that is very difficult to see. She's in a very untenable position given the Trump administration's policy to date when it comes to unions, but we'll see what'll happen.
GONYEA: We've been talking to labor economist Harley Shaiken. He is an emeritus professor at the University of California, Berkeley. Harley, thank you.
SHAIKEN: Thank you. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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